Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519

11/07/2007 09:00 AM House FINANCE


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09:09:10 AM Start
09:13:09 AM HB2001
08:07:47 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to 1:30 pm Today --
-- Teleconference <Listen Only> --
+= HB2001 OIL & GAS TAX AMENDMENTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Presentations:
- Resources CS, Steve Porter, Consultant
- Administration Issues, Pat Galvin,
Commissioner of Revenue
Continued at 5:00 pm today with
Dan Dickenson and Gaffney Cline
HOUSE BILL NO. 2001                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     An Act  relating to  the production tax  on oil  and gas                                                                   
     and to conservation  surcharges on oil;  relating to the                                                                   
     issuance  of advisory  bulletins and  the disclosure  of                                                                   
     certain information  relating to the production  tax and                                                                   
     the  sharing  between agencies  of  certain  information                                                                   
     relating  to the production  tax and to  oil and  gas or                                                                   
     gas  only leases;  amending the  State Personnel  Act to                                                                   
     place in  the exempt service  certain state oil  and gas                                                                   
     auditors and  their immediate supervisors;  establishing                                                                   
     an oil and  gas tax credit fund and  authorizing payment                                                                   
     from  that fund; providing  for retroactive  application                                                                   
     of certain statutory and  regulatory provisions relating                                                                   
     to the  production tax on  oil and gas and  conservation                                                                   
     surcharges  on oil;  making  conforming amendments;  and                                                                   
     providing for an effective date.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:13:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked about the changes  between various                                                                   
versions:  ACES (HB  2001), CSHB  2001 (O&G),  and CSHB  2001                                                                   
(RES).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
STEVE   PORTER,   LEGISLATIVE   CONSULTANT   referenced   the                                                                   
sectional analysis  depicting a  side by side  comparison for                                                                   
the three versions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked for a  brief history of Mr. Porter's                                                                   
professional  experience regarding  oil and  gas tax  issues.                                                                   
Mr. Porter outlined  his 21 years of experience  with oil and                                                                   
gas  issues  both  in  the  private  sector  as  well  as  in                                                                   
government. He has worked as the  deputy commissioner for the                                                                   
Department of Revenue, Tax Division  and also as a negotiator                                                                   
on  gas   related  issued;   most  recently  before   present                                                                   
employment  he worked for  Senator Steadman.  As a  result of                                                                   
his experience  he felt  he had a  good understanding  of the                                                                   
economic relationship between tax, reserves and price.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:16:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter identified  specific areas of change  in CSHB 2001                                                                   
(RES).   The title has  been changed  in each version  of the                                                                   
bill  to represent  changes  made  in  each committee.    The                                                                   
current title  includes a  retroactive clause.   of  the tax,                                                                   
with  intent language  on  how  to dedicate  the  funds.   In                                                                   
addition, there are changes to  the tax for gas being used in                                                                   
the State  (Cook Inlet), to  provide a benefit  to consumers.                                                                   
Mr. Porter noted that his presentation  did not site sections                                                                   
but rather the statute in which the changes are made.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter referenced the following statutory changes:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
AS 38.05.035(a)                                                                                                                 
This  change adds  a requirement  for  Department of  Natural                                                                   
Resources  (DNR)  to  furnish information  to  Department  of                                                                   
Revenue (DOR).   This  change enables DNR  and DOR  to better                                                                   
forecast  and   understand  the  impact  of   change  in  the                                                                   
industry. All three bills concur on this change.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He  noted  that  the next  several  changes  were  conforming                                                                   
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:18:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  requested   an   explanation  of   the                                                                   
information  sharing provision  as compared  from ACES.   Mr.                                                                   
Porter observed that a great deal  of language was both taken                                                                   
out and added  back. He promised to explain  the changes when                                                                   
addressing the statute regarding information sharing.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He provided an  overview of changes:  PPT  structure provided                                                                   
a value (production  and tax), minus cost, multiplied  by the                                                                   
tax, minus the credits.  He noted  that the tax portion is in                                                                   
AS 39.25.011,  credits are outlined in AS  29.25.023-025, and                                                                   
AS  39.25.165   and  .170  outlines  information   and  lease                                                                   
information.    He went  on  to  explain that  these  various                                                                   
issues are addressed throughout the bill.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:20:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He continued to explain changes  in AS 39.25.110(42), Page 10                                                                   
Line 6.   This section makes  auditors exempt.   This remains                                                                   
unchanged in all versions of the bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker   asked   for   detailed   supporting                                                                   
documents from the State.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter resumed  addressing changes  in AS  43.05.230(a);                                                                   
tax payer  confidentiality.   The intent is  to allow  DOR to                                                                   
share  information   with  the  public  by   aggregating  tax                                                                   
information  from  3 companies.  This  language  shows up  in                                                                   
section 65  but under  AS 43.05.230(h) is  where it  is first                                                                   
cited because  it falls under  an umbrella statute  regarding                                                                   
confidentiality.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:23:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AS 45.55.230(h) -  provides the vehicle to change  from three                                                                   
years  to  six years.    The  change  was necessary  for  the                                                                   
Department  of Revenue to  have six  years to complete  their                                                                   
tax assessments.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter directed  attention  to the  tax  sections in  AS                                                                   
45.55.011 noting that it had been  restructured slightly.  In                                                                   
current law, there  is a format change but the  result is the                                                                   
same.  AS 45.55.011(e) identifies  how the production tax and                                                                   
the progressivity  tax are computed.   The language is  in AS                                                                   
45.55.011(g) & (h).                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:24:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.011(f) in  the ACES  version inserts  a tax  floor.                                                                   
The tax floor provision was deleted  from the House Oil & Gas                                                                   
version  (HO&G)  and  the House  Resource  Committee  Version                                                                   
(HRES) concurred with this change.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  referenced Page  11,  Section  15.   He                                                                   
recalled  that the  value  of the  oil  was assessed  monthly                                                                   
under  PPT, in  HO&G this  was  changed to  yearly. The  HRES                                                                   
changed the  assessment back to  monthly, but the  change was                                                                   
not  reflected in  the  language.   Mr.  Porter believed  the                                                                   
intention was to  retain the HO&G language.   Mr. Porter said                                                                   
he would seek clarification and  added that regardless of the                                                                   
potential language error it would not change the formula.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:26:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter reiterated previous  comments on AS 43.55.011 (f).                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.011  (g) establishes the  base tax rate at  25%, the                                                                   
progressivity factor at .2 and the tax cap at 50%.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Nelson  asked for clarification  regarding the                                                                   
rate indicated.   Mr. Porter apologized that he  did not have                                                                   
time  to edit  the  version before  the  Committee and  noted                                                                   
there were typos.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:28:46 AM    AT EASE                                                                                                         
9:31:53 AM RECONVENED                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter  clarified  that  the  aforementioned  provision,                                                                   
establishing rates,  was deleted in HO&G. The   progressivity                                                                   
language is in 43.55.011(o).                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In AS 43.55.011(h), the ACES version  sets progressivity on a                                                                   
calendar year  basis instead of  monthly and establishes  the                                                                   
subtraction  factor to 30  instead of 40.   The language  was                                                                   
deleted in     HO&G  and  progressivity   was  placed  in  AS                                                                   
43.55.011 (o), HRES concurred.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.011(j)   &  (k)   are  technical  changes   without                                                                   
sustentative impact.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.011(l) is  a conforming reference that  results in a                                                                   
basic technical change.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.011(m)  changes "for" to  "on". This is  a technical                                                                   
change that was deleted in HO&G and was reinserted in HRES.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.011(o) as  established  in HO&G,  is  progressivity                                                                   
rates:    .225% based  on the gross  value, starting  at $50;                                                                   
HRES  expanded that  language to  establish progressivity  at                                                                   
.2, starting at  $30 net and increasing to .3  above $40, and                                                                   
.4 percent above $50.  There was  an amendment that implied a                                                                   
cap but it  did not clarify a  cap.  He recommended  that the                                                                   
Committee address this discrepancy.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:35:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  asked for  more information regarding  the                                                                   
gross/net trigger  points.  Mr.  Porter explained  that there                                                                   
are  two  portions  of  the progressivity  tax,  one  is  the                                                                   
trigger  amount, which  is based  on  the net.   The  trigger                                                                   
amount allows companies  $30 dollars in cash  flow before the                                                                   
progressivity  tax  kicks in.    The other  factor  is a  per                                                                   
barrel value.  Instead of taking  production tax value, which                                                                   
is minus  operating and capital  expenditures, it  returns to                                                                   
the gross value of production.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara  commented  on   the  impact   of  cost                                                                   
increases  on the  net  tax trigger  price.   He  went on  to                                                                   
comment on the  different points of view and  opined that the                                                                   
aforementioned  provisions  seem  to satisfy  all  sides.  He                                                                   
asked Mr. Porter if there is a  downside reflecting the costs                                                                   
percentage of  the gross value.   Mr. Porter replied  that in                                                                   
theory  the net cash  flow would  be shared  and provided  an                                                                   
example.   He noted that the  net trigger works  well between                                                                   
economic projects.  He explained  that the new  tax increased                                                                   
the curve  slightly and that there  is not a pure  sharing of                                                                   
cash flow.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:39:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault   summarized  the   impacts  of   the  new                                                                   
provisions  in HRES regarding  progressivity.     Mr.  Porter                                                                   
clarified   that  progressivity   affects  two  things:   the                                                                   
percentage  grows higher,  and is  disproportionate from  the                                                                   
cash flow relationship.   He reiterated that it  is no longer                                                                   
a pure net relationship.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:40:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  referenced  the  production tax.    He                                                                   
asked  if   the  companies  would   be  able  to   claim  the                                                                   
progressivity tax  piece as a deduction with  the net trigger                                                                   
and  gross progressivity  provision.   Mr.  Porter  responded                                                                   
that it would  not change their ability to  claim deductions.                                                                   
He  added  that  the  provision  would  impact  the  economic                                                                   
analysis slightly  in respect to  cash flow. He did  not know                                                                   
the percentage  of  loss of value  (in tax  take) that  would                                                                   
result.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly asked for  a comparison of the five bill                                                                   
versions - PPT,  ACES, HRES, HO&G and Senate  Judiciary.  Co-                                                                   
Chair Chenault  agreed and  added that he  would like  to see                                                                   
how the  net trigger works on  the gross and its  effect. Mr.                                                                   
Porter responded by offering to  provide a chart illustrating                                                                   
the progressivity curve on the deductibility piece.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  asked  if the  mechanism  changed  the                                                                   
ability to  deduct expenses and  what effect this  would have                                                                   
in the different models.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  followed-up  and requested  the  fiscal                                                                   
impact of each of the 5 bills, with a comparison sheet.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:45:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Porter   continued   with   his   presentation:      AS                                                                   
43.55.011(p)(referenced  in title  change) -  allows for  gas                                                                   
produced in  the State to receive  the same tax  treatment as                                                                   
Cook Inlet gas.  Co-Chair Chenault  asked if there was a cap.                                                                   
Mr. Porter  did not  think so.   Co-Chair Chenault  suggested                                                                   
that  Cook Inlet  Basin is  the  example to  follow to  allow                                                                   
constituents around the State  access to the gas.  Mr. Porter                                                                   
added  that the  current  draft  would allow  the  gas to  be                                                                   
brought from  the North Slope.   Representative Gara  noted a                                                                   
provision  in PPT  deflated the  amount  of gas  in the  Cook                                                                   
Inlet.   He  described  this  provision  as an  urban  "PCE".                                                                   
Representative Nelson added that  it is like PCE "plus".  She                                                                   
clarified by saying  the natural gas not only  covers much of                                                                   
the need  for electrical use,  but would also cover   heating                                                                   
cost.  Co-Chair  Chenault pointed out that  many people still                                                                   
use  oil rather  than  natural  gas because  of  the lack  of                                                                   
availability.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Thomas  commented  that  PCE does  not  cover                                                                   
schools or businesses.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:49:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter  pointed  out that  ANGDA  has  been  considering                                                                   
evaluation  of  compressed  gas  projects in  the  Yukon  and                                                                   
Southeast  Alaska.    The  HRES   version  could  help  rural                                                                   
communities through pilot projects.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He continued  his presentation:  AS 43.55.020(a)  establishes                                                                   
installment   payments  consistent   with   changes  in   the                                                                   
production tax.  This language  was deleted in the HO&G, HRES                                                                   
concurred.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter explained  that AS 43.55.020 (g), (h),  & (i) have                                                                   
minor language changes.  HRES  established a new section (i).                                                                   
The  provision provides  for civil  penalties on  installment                                                                   
payments  to  accrue at  5%  of  the difference  between  the                                                                   
amount due and the amount paid.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  cited  two  terms  used  in  the  bill:                                                                   
"underpayment" and "understatement"  and asked if there was a                                                                   
difference.   Mr. Porter did  not know.  Representative  Gara                                                                   
pointed  out   that  in  many  of  the   State's  provisions,                                                                   
negligence needs  to be  proved in order  to get  the penalty                                                                   
payment.   He said he understood  that this was not  the case                                                                   
with regard to  the 5%.  Mr. Porter observed  that this would                                                                   
be  best discussed  when he  addressed the  provision in  his                                                                   
presentation.      Representative    Hawker   asked   for   a                                                                   
comprehensive list  of all penalty  provisions for  the State                                                                   
of Alaska regarding filings on production taxes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly suggested  that answers to questions and                                                                   
requests should  be directed to  the Committee  Chair, rather                                                                   
than be the responsibility of  Mr. Porter.  Co-Chair Chenault                                                                   
agreed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:54:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter  resumed  his  presentation:     AS  43.55.023(a)                                                                   
addresses  credits.    He informed  the  Committee  that  the                                                                   
Department of Revenue  wanted to shift the credits  and allow                                                                   
the applicant  to take half  in one  year and half  the next.                                                                   
This was  deleted in the  last two versions.   He went  on to                                                                   
say that  these deletions will  be consistent in  other areas                                                                   
of the bill that address credits.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
AS   43.55.023(d)  is   a  conforming   amendment   regarding                                                                   
transferable tax  credits.  The  provision also  extended the                                                                   
timeframe from 60-120 days for  the Department to approve the                                                                   
applications.   The  HO&G version  deleted  the language  and                                                                   
reverted  back  to  PPT  language;   HRES  reestablished  the                                                                   
ability  to obtain  a gas  payment,  but did  not change  the                                                                   
timeframe back to 120 days.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.023(e) contained  conforming  references that  were                                                                   
deleted in the last two committees.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.023  (g) added  conforming language  related  to the                                                                   
purchase  of certificates.    This was  deleted  in HO&G  and                                                                   
reinstated in the HRES version.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Transitional Investment  Credits (TIE) were repealed  in Sec.                                                                   
65 of ACES and  reinstated in the HO&G version.   There was a                                                                   
five year  time frame that had  been reduced to  three years.                                                                   
In effect,  the provision  reduced the  credit that  could be                                                                   
captured.  The provision remains in HRES.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:57:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked about the  TIE credits.   He asked                                                                   
which bill  provided the compromise  allowing the  credits to                                                                   
the new explorers,  but not the major companies.   Mr. Porter                                                                   
explained  the   provision  was   in  the  Senate   Judiciary                                                                   
Committee (SJUD)  version.  The language attempted  to delete                                                                   
the TIE  credits entirely,  effective January  1, 2008.   The                                                                   
provision  did allow for  explorers to  apply credits  in the                                                                   
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked if it was unwise  to allow credits                                                                   
for investments already made.   Mr. Porter explained that, in                                                                   
order to  capture the credit in  the future, a  company would                                                                   
have  to spend  capital at  twice  their previous  rate.   He                                                                   
added, the formula allows 10% per year until 2013.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:01:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker   emphasized  that  the   TIE  credits                                                                   
outlined in PPT are purchased, not given.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Porter  outlined  changes   in  AS  43.55.023(o),  which                                                                   
clarifies that  tax credits are  not available to  tax exempt                                                                   
entities.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Chenault  asked   about   the  Alaska   Retirement                                                                   
Management (ARM)  Board.  Mr.  Porter explained that  the ARM                                                                   
Board is excluded from the provision  and summarized language                                                                   
in AS  43.55.023  (m), HRES.   The ARM  Board  can not get  a                                                                   
credit for  their exploration,  but they can purchase  credit                                                                   
to capture the incremental value.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.024(a)  provides that  AS 43.55.024 credits  can not                                                                   
be applied against the tax floor,  AS 43.55.011 (f), to lower                                                                   
the obligation  for legacy fields.  This was deleted  in HO&G                                                                   
and HRES.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter discussed AS 43.55.025(a).  Under ACES the credits                                                                   
could not  be applied to  reduce the  tax on the  floor; HO&G                                                                   
deleted the language; and HRES  reinstated the ACES language,                                                                   
but increased the exploration credits from 20% to 30%.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:04:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter  reviewed AS 43.55.025(b),  which requires  a well                                                                   
be "completed  or abandoned" prior  to receiving credit.   In                                                                   
addition,  the provision  exempts  costs  arising from  gross                                                                   
negligence   and   any   violation   of   Health   Safety   &                                                                   
Environmental  statutes and  regulations.   The HO&G  version                                                                   
deleted  the  ACES  language.     HRES  reinstated  the  ACES                                                                   
language and added "suspended, completed or abandoned".                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.025  (c) establishes additional requirements  of DNR                                                                   
approval in advance, and verification  subsequent to drilling                                                                   
the well in order  to receive the credit.  The  ACES language                                                                   
was deleted in HO&G and reinstated  in HRES with a percentage                                                                   
change from 20% to 30%.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.025(f) defines  the data that would  be necessary to                                                                   
be  submitted to  receive  an exploration  credit.   It  also                                                                   
reduced the confidentiality  period from 10 years  to 2 years                                                                   
and provided that two certificates  would be issued: one-half                                                                   
the credit  immediately  useable and one-half  delayed.   The                                                                   
HO&G  version deleted  all these  provisions.   The  original                                                                   
ACES  language  was reinstated  in  HRES with  the  following                                                                   
changes:   provided the  DNR commissioner  the discretion  to                                                                   
grant  extended confidentiality  under certain  circumstances                                                                   
and made the certificates immediately available.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:07:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.025(h)  provides that  the AS 43.55.025  tax credits                                                                   
cannot be applied  against the tax floor in  AS 43.55.001(f).                                                                   
The  HO&G  version  deletes  the  ACES  language,  which  was                                                                   
reinstated in HRES.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.025(k)  changes the definition of  preexisting well,                                                                   
in ACES, to a  well spudded within 150 days  rather than 120.                                                                   
This language was  deleted in the HO&G and  was reinstated in                                                                   
the HRES version.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55025(l)  allows DNR  to  purchase seismic  data  with                                                                   
credits  for 5%  of  the investment  expenditure.   This  was                                                                   
deleted in HO&G and reinstated in the HRES version.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter  reiterated that the  language in AS  43.55.025(m)                                                                   
was added in HRES  only.  The provision allows  the ARM Board                                                                   
to   purchase  transferable   certificates   for  which   the                                                                   
Department is authorized to issue cash refunds.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.028 creates the Gas Credit  Fund and establishes the                                                                   
amount  of reserves  to  be deposited  into  the  Fund.   The                                                                   
language  was  established  in  ACES, deleted  in  HO&G,  and                                                                   
reinstated  in HRES with  the additional  language:   maximum                                                                   
annual limit of  $25 million on the purchase  of certificates                                                                   
with the  exception that  the maximum does  not apply  to the                                                                   
ARM Board.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.030(a) amends  tax  payer requirements  on  filing.                                                                   
This language is retained in both HO&G and HRES.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.030(d) in  ACES established $1000 a  day penalty for                                                                   
not filing  required reports.   This language was  deleted in                                                                   
HO&G and reinstated in HRES.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:10:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter continued:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.030(e)  adds reporting  obligations  for  explorers                                                                   
that do  not have  production.   The HO&G  and HRES  versions                                                                   
adopted this language.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.040  grants powers and  duties of the  Department of                                                                   
Revenue to  require producers  and explorers to  file reports                                                                   
that are "considered necessary"  for forecasting and provides                                                                   
penalties for  not doing  so.  The  HO&G version  deleted the                                                                   
penalties  portion.   The HRES  version  reinstated the  ACES                                                                   
language   with  additional  requirements   on  the   penalty                                                                   
prohibiting the  department from compromising on  the penalty                                                                   
for less than 50% of the assessed penalty.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.075  extends the  time frame  for the Department  to                                                                   
file an assessment  from 3 years  to 6 years.  There  were no                                                                   
changes in HO&G or HRES.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  if  the provision  increased  the                                                                   
time allowed the Department to  file an audit or make a claim                                                                   
for underpayment from 3 to 6 years.   Mr. Porter replied that                                                                   
it was  the assessement itself.   Under ACES,  the assessment                                                                   
determines the dollar  amount owed if there  is a difference.                                                                   
Representative Gara asked if "assessment"  was the legal term                                                                   
used to  describe the  determination of  a claim. He  further                                                                   
questioned if the tax assessment  period was six years in the                                                                   
current version  of the bill.   Mr. Porter affirmed  that the                                                                   
Department has  six years to  complete its tax  assessment in                                                                   
the current version of the bill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:12:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.110 allows  the  Department to  require  electronic                                                                   
filing.  This provision remained in all versions.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
***Mr.  Porter  observed  that,   in  the  HRES  version,  AS                                                                   
43.55.150(a)  inserted  new  language   for  determining  the                                                                   
actual  transportation  costs  of  the  gas  outlining  three                                                                   
contingencies. Current  law requires all  three contingencies                                                                   
be met.  The current language  changes that to; if any one of                                                                   
the contingencies  is met the Department will  determine what                                                                   
is reasonable.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.150(b) establishes  new  language,  added in  HRES,                                                                   
stating that  transportation costs filed with  the Regulatory                                                                   
Commission of Alaska must be adjudicated.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.160(a)  clarifies  how production  tax  values  are                                                                   
calculated in  Cook Inlet.   HO&G changed language  reverting                                                                   
to  PPT language  with  conforming  references.   HRES  added                                                                   
information  related  to  AS   43.55.011(p)  provision  which                                                                   
allows the  tax to be  the same as  Cook Inlet (in  state gas                                                                   
use).                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.160(b)  clarifies  the loss carried  forward.   This                                                                   
language was deleted in HO&G and HRES concurred.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.160 (f-i) addresses the  allocation of costs between                                                                   
leases.    The  language  was   deleted  in  the  HO&G,  HRES                                                                   
concurred.    Representative Gara  questioned  the  practical                                                                   
application of  that deletion.   Mr. Porter recommended  that                                                                   
Mr. Dickinson address the methodologies of Cook Inlet.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   asked  if  ACES  was   concerned  with                                                                   
artificially  reducing  the  value.     Mr.  Porter  did  not                                                                   
remember those discussions.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:16:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter continued:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.165(a)  outlines the  type of costs associated  with                                                                   
lease expenditures and standards  by which the Department can                                                                   
determine allowable  costs.  HO&G  deleted ACES  language and                                                                   
reverted to  PPT language with  conforming references.   HRES                                                                   
concurred.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.165(b)  addresses language  additions and  deletions                                                                   
regarding  direct  costs.    The  current  language  in  HRES                                                                   
changed "in  the state" to "on  the premises of the  lease or                                                                   
property from which oil or gas is recovered".                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:18:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.165(b) describes the  types of costs that qualify as                                                                   
lease expenditures and provides  standards for the Department                                                                   
to determine which costs are allowed.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Porter noted that section 53 amended section 52.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AS 43.55.165(e)  establishes  the list  of disallowed  costs.                                                                   
Mr. Porter  read from the  handout the  list of costs  in the                                                                   
ACES version.  The HO&G concurred  with ACES.  The HRES added                                                                   
to  the list  of disallowances.  Further  language was  added                                                                   
amending the departments responsibility  to write regulations                                                                   
to cover the  allocation of costs under AS  43.55.011(p), the                                                                   
instate gas use clause.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:20:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.170  (a)  deletes  qualifying   language  regarding                                                                   
payment or credit with no changes to either version.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AS   43.55.890  allows   the  department   to  disclose   tax                                                                   
information aggregated  from three  or more taxpayers.   HO&G                                                                   
and HRES concurred.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
AS  43.55.900  defines  the  following   terms:  "nonunitized                                                                   
reservoir",  "pool", "producer",  and "unit".   HO&G  deletes                                                                   
"nonunitized reservoir"  and "pool".  HRES  version concurred                                                                   
and added a definition of "used in state".                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:21:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Effective  dates  1/1/08  for  ACES version  and  HO&G.  HRES                                                                   
version changed the effective date to 1/1/07                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
RECESSED: 10:22:50 AM                                                                                                         
REONVENED:10:50:32 AM                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin, Department  of Revenue  noted that  the                                                                   
intent of ACES was to gain the  needed tools to implement the                                                                   
tax system and ensure the state  receives an equitable share.                                                                   
He noted two provisions  in the bill:  the need  for auditors                                                                   
and clear rules for what is and  is not allowable and the 10%                                                                   
gross tax.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Galvin  noted that  he was before  the Committee                                                                   
to discuss the current version of the bill.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He   explained    that   the   intent   section    identifies                                                                   
retroactivity  and  designates   revenue  received  from  the                                                                   
provision  into a fund.  The Administration  sees this  as an                                                                   
opportunity  to   acquire  and   save  funds.  He   said  the                                                                   
administration   supports   any   attempts  at   savings   of                                                                   
additional funds  received from  the tax. He  went on  to say                                                                   
that equitable  share can be generated  in a number  of ways.                                                                   
He said  the progressivity piece  allows for the  opportunity                                                                   
to gain and  save when prices  are high so funds can  be used                                                                   
during a time of low prices.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:55:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Stoltze  questioned   if  there   is  a   strong                                                                   
commitment to  saving a significant portion of  the revenues.                                                                   
Commissioner Galvin  stated that the Administration  has been                                                                   
clear in  their commitment to  saving additional  revenue for                                                                   
the future.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:57:21 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Crawford  stressed the need to  diversify from                                                                   
a one time resource to a recurring  resource. He stressed the                                                                   
importance of investments that  would provide for generations                                                                   
in the future.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:58:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Galvin   acknowledged   the  desire   of   the                                                                   
legislature to find the balance  of protecting the state when                                                                   
oil prices are  low and ensuring the state gets  a fair share                                                                   
when oil  prices are  high. He  noted that the  progressivity                                                                   
mechanism weighs  the risk preference  and can  be structured                                                                   
in  a  number  of  ways  depending   on  current  prices.  He                                                                   
cautioned that  the focus should  be on the  representational                                                                   
price  range  as  a realistic  expectation  rather  than  the                                                                   
current high price.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:01:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara expressed  skepticism that the high price                                                                   
of oil  would remain  and asked  for an  average of  the last                                                                   
three years. Commissioner  Galvin said the average  price was                                                                   
$50  per barrel  over  the last  three  years.  He said  that                                                                   
forecasted prices are based on  previous patterns and look at                                                                   
$60 dollars a  barrel over the next few years.  He emphasized                                                                   
the prudence of remaining with a conservative approach.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked for  the  last two  year  average                                                                   
fiscal year  oil prices.   Commissioner Galvin said  he would                                                                   
provide the information to the committee.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:04:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin  spoke  to  the  tax rate  for  gas.  He                                                                   
asserted  that new  gas projects  would have  a disparity  in                                                                   
treatment   under   the   PPT   structure.   Therefore,   the                                                                   
Administration  supports  the  Cook Inlet  provision  in  the                                                                   
current HRES  version. He  felt a cap  was unnecessary  as it                                                                   
only applied  to gas used in  the state.  He  underlined that                                                                   
the  gas   that  fills   state  demand   would  receive   the                                                                   
preferential treatment.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:06:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Crawford  asked  the  Commissioner  if  there                                                                   
could be problems selling in state  gas, with a different tax                                                                   
rate,  out of  state. Commissioner  Galvin acknowledged  that                                                                   
there  could   be  constitutionality  issues.     He  further                                                                   
commented that  there is  no in state  gas sold out  of state                                                                   
now and would not be for the near future.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:08:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara described  the in-state gas tax provision                                                                   
as a  subsidy and requested  an estimate  of the cost  to the                                                                   
state in  a decreased tax take.   He underlined the  point by                                                                   
saying   that  the   discounted  tax   rate  benefits   those                                                                   
communities  on   the  road  system.     Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
disagreed with the characterization  of subsidy by explaining                                                                   
that part  of the tax  is due to  the economics of  the field                                                                   
and part is subsidy.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:12:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  reiterated his point regarding  the cost                                                                   
to the state  in a decreased tax  take.  He went on  to point                                                                   
out  that  only  certain  areas   will  receive  the  benefit                                                                   
creating inequity statewide.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:12:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze spoke  in  support of  reducing  consumer                                                                   
costs whenever possible.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:13:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Nelson,   in  response   to   Representative                                                                   
Stoltze, pointed out that she  did not think anyone wanted to                                                                   
take away the subsidy. She noted  that Tanana [corrected from                                                                   
Nenana] is looking at retrofitting  homes and businesses from                                                                   
diesel to  propane.  She questioned  if a gas  pipeline would                                                                   
power  these  communities  by  propane  rather  than  diesel.                                                                   
Commissioner  Galvin responded  that  it  would be  possible.                                                                   
Representative  Joule  asked  for  a  chart  of  where  these                                                                   
prospects  are  in the  state.  Commissioner  Galvin said  he                                                                   
would provide studies done by DNR and ANGDA.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault suggested  that  all  subsidies should  be                                                                   
evaluated and pointed to PCE and other subsidies.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:18:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin focused  on  TIE credits.  He  explained                                                                   
that   the   Senate   version   added   clarifying   language                                                                   
representing  the intent  of the  ACES  bill (Explorers  that                                                                   
have qualified  for TIE credits by making  expenditures after                                                                   
enactment  of PPT,  would be frozen  and could  be used  once                                                                   
production was  realized). The  House version reverts  to the                                                                   
existing TIE program  with a limit on past  expenditures that                                                                   
qualify.  The  full five years would allow  a billion dollars                                                                   
of TIE credits  to be taken. The current version  would allow                                                                   
$750 million available  in credits.  He noted  that there had                                                                   
been discussion  regarding the  benefit of allowing  a credit                                                                   
on  past  expenditures.    He  suggested  that  providing  an                                                                   
additional  10%  credit  for  an  existing  producer  is  not                                                                   
creating an equal playing field with explorers.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin   spoke  to  transferable   credits.  He                                                                   
pointed out  that an explorer  has to  find a way  to capture                                                                   
the value  of the credit.   Currently there is a  $25 million                                                                   
opportunity  for the state  to provide  cash for the  credit;                                                                   
they would  have to  find a producer  to buy anything  beyond                                                                   
that amount.  The state would  realize the full value  of the                                                                   
credit  on the  books. The  Administration feels  that it  is                                                                   
better to cut out the transaction,  and allow the explorer to                                                                   
get full  value from  the state.  The mechanism  to ease  the                                                                   
bookwork  would be  the  creation  of a  fund  that would  be                                                                   
filled by  production tax  revenue and then  used to  pay the                                                                   
credits  generated by  new explorers.  The HRES version  caps                                                                   
the ability  to provide the full  value of the credit  at $25                                                                   
million  per  explorer.  It provides  the  beginnings  of  an                                                                   
alternate path  that would bring  those explorers to  the ARM                                                                   
Board with  the ability to  purchase credits at  a discounted                                                                   
amount.   The  Administration  supports lifting  the cap  and                                                                   
providing the full value to the explorer.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:23:30 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin addressed  the  penalties provision  and                                                                   
expressed the desire to have all  the penalties recognized in                                                                   
one place. He noted that with  all the changes the intent was                                                                   
confusing.    He further  discussed  lease  expenditures  and                                                                   
allowable   deductions.    Representative   Gara    discussed                                                                   
penalties  for   underpayment.  He  expressed   a  number  of                                                                   
concerns  regarding  the ability  of  the state  to  properly                                                                   
audit a profits tax.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:27:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin  said  ACES  provides for  costs  to  be                                                                   
identified  and  defined in  regulation.   The  language  was                                                                   
removed  in HRES.    He spoke  in  support  of restoring  the                                                                   
original language.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:28:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker expressed  concern  with the  original                                                                   
language because it would be dependent  on the implementation                                                                   
of regulation.   He  expressed concern  regarding the  use of                                                                   
regulation to enact legislation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin emphasized  that  regulation allows  for                                                                   
the department  to define the  parameters for  individual tax                                                                   
payers and thus  reflects the intent of the  legislature.  He                                                                   
pointed out  that the  legislature has  the power to  address                                                                   
the issue if the regulations are  not in alignment with their                                                                   
intent.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Galvin  clarified for Representative  Kelly that                                                                   
he was  referring to costs on  lease expenditures in  HB 2001                                                                   
section page 41, line 11.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:34:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Galvin   spoke    to   the   allowable   lease                                                                   
expenditures  section.  He  said that  provisions  have  been                                                                   
added  in a number  of versions  to restrict  costs to  those                                                                   
incurred in  the state. He  said the Administration  does not                                                                   
support  that   restriction  and  noted  the   difficulty  in                                                                   
implementation.   He asserted  that in  terms of policy,  the                                                                   
state does  not have the  capacity to support  all activities                                                                   
related to oil and gas. The Administration  supports a system                                                                   
that recognizes that some costs are incurred out of state.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:37:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  said the point  of the provision  was to                                                                   
limit gaming of  the system. Commissioner Galvin  argued that                                                                   
the statute is  clear that costs must be directly  related to                                                                   
oil  and gas  produced  in Alaska.  Companies  would have  to                                                                   
justify  their  expenditures.  He felt  that  the  Department                                                                   
could resolve  the problem through the  audit. Representative                                                                   
Gara argued that  the expenses would be claimed  and that the                                                                   
state would have to make the argument  through litigation. He                                                                   
felt that the state's definition  and the oil companies would                                                                   
differ. Commissioner  Galvin maintained that audits  would be                                                                   
done and  enforced. Representative  Gara spoke in  support of                                                                   
restricting  proportioning  of   costs.  Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
agreed. He explained that there  is an allowance for overhead                                                                   
that must be  demonstrated through documentation.   On top of                                                                   
that the state  would provide 3% on capital  expenditures and                                                                   
9% on operating expenses.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:46:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara   asked   for  clarification   on   the                                                                   
percentage allotted for indirect  costs.  Commissioner Galvin                                                                   
reiterated  the   3%  on  capital  expenditures   and  9%  on                                                                   
operating expenditures.   He cited  the HRES version  on Page                                                                   
40, Line 15: reasonable allowances.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Galvin  addressed the corrosion issue.  The said                                                                   
there is  a broadly accepted  principle that cost  for repair                                                                   
of   improperly  maintained   equipment  should   not   be  a                                                                   
deductible  cost.   In order  to  address this  specifically,                                                                   
language could  be added to say: If "improperly  maintained".                                                                   
The commissioner pointed out that  this language would be put                                                                   
to  a  test  and  it  would  require  extensive  analysis  to                                                                   
determine.  He  emphasized that the proposal  brought forward                                                                   
is more objective than subject.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The Department would identify  an unscheduled event and those                                                                   
costs would be excluded. He further  noted that this was more                                                                   
easily implemented with auditors  rather than engineers. This                                                                   
method of addressing  the issue was removed  from the present                                                                   
committee substitute and was replaced  with Page 41, Lines 3-                                                                   
6,(HRES) extending  the costs that arise out  of willfulness,                                                                   
misconduct or gross negligence.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:52:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  agreed with the addition  of language.                                                                   
He  referenced  Lines  4  -  6  and  expressed  concern  that                                                                   
"failure to  comply" was overly  broad.  He pointed  out that                                                                   
the  language regarding  leases,  permits etc.,  restrictions                                                                   
and penalties  are already outlined  in a lease  contract. He                                                                   
opined  that perhaps  this was  a reaction  to Exxon and  the                                                                   
Point  Thompson  lease. Commissioner  Galvin  recognized  the                                                                   
concern.    He  clarified  that   it  is  more  a  matter  of                                                                   
implementation.   He   explained   the   difference   between                                                                   
resolving   lease  violations   and  a  statutory   violation                                                                   
providing for a penalty in fees.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker   emphasized   that   non   offensive                                                                   
violations  and egregious  violations  are  treated the  same                                                                   
under the provision.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:00:19 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin,  responding to  Representative  Hawkers                                                                   
comments,   discussed   the   difficulties   of   determining                                                                   
violations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:01:52 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara referenced  Page 41,  Lines 3  - 6,  and                                                                   
asked how the original ACES language  compared.  Commissioner                                                                   
Galvin stated that  the reference to the Clean  Water Act and                                                                   
"criminal negligence"  was added.  Representative  Gara asked                                                                   
about   language   regarding  unscheduled   interruption   of                                                                   
service.  Commissioner  Galvin said the language  was on Page                                                                   
42, Line 30, subsection (19).                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  if this  language applied,  would                                                                   
the  State  have to  prove  criminal  negligence for  the  BP                                                                   
shutdown.  Commissioner Galvin  said they would have to prove                                                                   
that all the costs claimed were due to criminal negligence.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin referenced  Page  41,  Paragraph 8.  The                                                                   
section deals with what is excluded  from lease expenditures.                                                                   
He emphasized  the department  does not  oppose inclusion  of                                                                   
"criminal negligence" language.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:05:57 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  asked about the current status  of audits.                                                                   
Commissioner  Galvin  said  the  first tax  returns  came  in                                                                   
before April 1.   He said the accounting and  auditing system                                                                   
is  set up  for the  fall  for the  federal  packages.   That                                                                   
information  will provide  the  starting  point for  auditing                                                                   
personnel and  developing strategy.  Co-Chair  Chenault asked                                                                   
how the strategy  would be developed and how  the regulations                                                                   
pertain.  Commissioner Galvin  explained that the regulations                                                                   
were   developed   under   PPT    and   put   in   place   in                                                                   
January/February.  He  noted  that  there  were  some  issues                                                                   
regarding  the details  of the  costs outlined  in the  joint                                                                   
interest billings.   He pointed  out that the  Department has                                                                   
brought  the  issues  before  the  Legislature  so  that  the                                                                   
regulations are written to the  legislative intent.  The bulk                                                                   
of  the  audit  strategies would  remain  regardless  of  the                                                                   
changes.  The decision regarding  which costs incurred in the                                                                   
calendar year 2006  are going to be allowable  under PPT will                                                                   
affect what happens  in 2007.  Transition language  will need                                                                   
to  be   put  in  place  if   provisions  are  going   to  be                                                                   
retroactive.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The  cost issue,  Page 43,  Line  10, new  Section 20,  makes                                                                   
clear  that costs  are  excluded  for the  reasons  described                                                                   
earlier.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:11:11 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker asked about  new provision 19 regarding                                                                   
topping  plants.   Commissioner  Galvin  explained  that  the                                                                   
Department was asked if the expenditure  for the construction                                                                   
of  a  manufacturing  plant  was  an  appropriate  deductible                                                                   
expense.    The Administration  determined that it is  not an                                                                   
appropriate lease  expenditure as  the plant is  not directly                                                                   
related to production.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked how a fair transfer  price would                                                                   
be  determined.    Commissioner  Galvin  clarified  that  the                                                                   
transfer price would be fair market value of the product.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker   explained   the   relationship   of                                                                   
increased  revenue  by  decreasing costs  through  a  topping                                                                   
plant.  He thought the provision  would discourage investment                                                                   
capital in  the fields.   Commissioner  Galvin did  not share                                                                   
the concern,  noting that companies  would not  consider this                                                                   
when determining operation costs.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker reiterated  the operating expense  and                                                                   
cost of fuel, which he thought  precludes making investing in                                                                   
the field.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:20:00 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Crawford  commented that the language  was too                                                                   
specific and asked  if it could be replicated  in other areas                                                                   
of the  state.  Commissioner Galvin  acknowledged that  there                                                                   
are  other topping  plants on  the  North Slope  and that  it                                                                   
could replicate itself in other ways without the language.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly did not think  it was a good idea to put                                                                   
something in statute that can be addressed in regulation.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:23:00 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Thomas  referenced the  retroactivity  clause                                                                   
and asked what the anticipated  cost of heating fuel would be                                                                   
for the consumers.  Commissioner  Galvin responded that there                                                                   
is no  direct relationship  between the increased  production                                                                   
tax and  the price  of heating  fuel.  Representative  Thomas                                                                   
worried  about the  increases  to taxes  applied  to the  oil                                                                   
tankers. He  noted that  it is  likely the transporters  will                                                                   
increase price to make up for  tax increase and this would be                                                                   
passed on  to consumers.   Commissioner Galvin said  that the                                                                   
increased  tax   goes  to  the   producers.     He  reassured                                                                   
Representative Thomas that the  tax increase would not impact                                                                   
the consumer.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:28:49 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule  disclosed  that  he  holds  shares  in                                                                   
Native Corporations.   He asked  if the drilling  information                                                                   
from private  land had to be  made public. He said  that this                                                                   
could  leave  businesses  at a  disadvantage.    Commissioner                                                                   
Galvin  clarified  that  this  only  applies  if  a  business                                                                   
chooses to participate in the incentive credit program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:34:55 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  understood that the Administration  requested                                                                   
that  the  effective  dates  and  retroactivity  language  be                                                                   
"cleaned-up".   He  worried about  a legal  challenge to  the                                                                   
retroactivity  language.   He  asked  the preference  of  the                                                                   
Administration.   Commissioner Galvin  said the legal  advice                                                                   
from the  Department of Law  is that as  long as they  act in                                                                   
the same  taxable year, they would  be in solid ground.   The                                                                   
                                         st                                                                                     
original  recommendation   of  January  1   noted   that  the                                                                   
Administration  recognized  the  value  of  starting  at  the                                                                   
beginning of the year.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer asked when regulations  would be completed. He                                                                   
went on to say  that one of the current problems  is that the                                                                   
regulations for  PPT are not  in place.  Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
advised  that   when  PPT  was   passed,  the  bulk   of  the                                                                   
regulations  were in  place within  six months.   There  were                                                                   
still  issues that  needed to  be resolved  and the  proposed                                                                   
bill addresses  those issues.   He thought regulations  would                                                                   
be in place within six months of passage.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  worried that  this was  the third tax  change                                                                   
within three  years.   He wondered if  it would be  revisited                                                                   
within   the  next   couple  years   with  further   changes.                                                                   
Commissioner Galvin hoped and  expected that the tax law that                                                                   
passes would  be in place long-term  and did not  expect that                                                                   
the tax system would be revisited.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:40:37 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker   referenced  non-state   land  issues                                                                   
brought forth by  Representative Joule.  He  thought that the                                                                   
substance  gives  the  State   an  unfair  advantage  against                                                                   
private land owners  when the private land owner  is required                                                                   
to disclose to the state information  that can be revealed to                                                                   
the public.   He expressed concern that  mandatory disclosure                                                                   
is discriminatory. Commissioner  Galvin reiterated that it is                                                                   
optional  for  companies  to participate  in  the  additional                                                                   
credit, which requires the submission of data.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:43:37 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker pointed out  that the provision  would                                                                   
establish  the  "shelf  life"  of 24  months.    Commissioner                                                                   
Galvin maintained his point that  the owner had the option of                                                                   
using the credits.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:44:29 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker maintained  that the  state would  pay                                                                   
for  bad data  and  never  get  the good  data.  Commissioner                                                                   
Galvin responded that  one of the changes in  the EIC section                                                                   
is the  requirement that the companies  come to DNR  ahead of                                                                   
time and file for the credit.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:45:22 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara observed that  deductions increase as the                                                                   
tax rate increases. He suggested  that, as long as you are in                                                                   
a reasonable  range of taxes,  increasing the  deduction rate                                                                   
is an  additional  incentive to  invest. Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
agreed.  Representative Gara  expressed  a concern  regarding                                                                   
progressivity  at $50  - $55  a  barrel. Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
clarified  that there  is a  range  across fields  with a  52                                                                   
percent  average for  all.   He went  on to  say that  within                                                                   
those fields  there are  lower cost fields  that will  have a                                                                   
lower margin  and others  where progressivity  kicks in  at a                                                                   
higher   rate.   Representative    Gara   asked   about   the                                                                   
relationship   between  production   decline  and   increased                                                                   
progressivity.  Commissioner Galvin  pointed  out that  there                                                                   
are  two  moving parts:  operating  expenditure  and  capital                                                                   
expenditures.  He explained that  capital expenditures  would                                                                   
be the reflection  of new investment to  increase production.                                                                   
With regards to the numbers changing  the question is whether                                                                   
the  increase is  due  to the  $8  per barrel  of  additional                                                                   
investment or  because the  operating expenditures  have gone                                                                   
up by $8 per  barrel. Representative Gara asked  for the best                                                                   
estimate of where  the progressivity "kick in"  would be over                                                                   
the next few years.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:49:24 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked if  raising  the  base rate  from                                                                   
22.5%  to 25%  would  provide additional  incentives  through                                                                   
deductions.  Commissioner Galvin said yes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  cited the  Department's  August  report                                                                   
identifying that  PPT is projected  to bring in  $800 million                                                                   
less than what  was projected. Last year the  legislature was                                                                   
told that PPT would  raise more than ELF starting  at $26 per                                                                   
barrel, but  the old system would  raise more than  PPT until                                                                   
oil hits  $46 dollars a barrel,  not $26.  He  further stated                                                                   
that the  progressivity kick  in was going  to be  around $55                                                                   
per barrel,  but under  the commissioners  analysis  it might                                                                   
not be until oil $63 per barrel.   He maintained that PPT was                                                                   
broken.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:50:58 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  noted that  questions should  be submitted                                                                   
in  writing  so  that  they can  be  shared  with  the  other                                                                   
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:53:24 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Galvin discussed  fiscal notes.  He noted  that                                                                   
the  projected revenues,  with the  forecasted prices,  would                                                                   
result in  $2.97 billion, which  would be $1.05  billion more                                                                   
than PPT.   He also pointed  out the additional  $244 million                                                                   
that  would  be received  from  retroactivity  in 2007.    He                                                                   
further noted  the percentage increases in the  analysis with                                                                   
different dollar  amount projections. He underlined  that the                                                                   
fiscal note reflects the production  estimates that have been                                                                   
used  throughout   the  special  session.     The  production                                                                   
forecasts  for  the  fall  are  currently  being  updated  to                                                                   
provide an  official number to  the Office of  Management and                                                                   
Budget (OMB).   He  said new fiscal  notes incorporating  new                                                                   
production  forecasts would be  available by  the end  of the                                                                   
week.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault asked if the  ACES version was reflected in                                                                   
the current fiscal note.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Galvin  observed that ACES is not  in the fiscal                                                                   
note.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chenault  requested that all bill  versions be                                                                   
reflected in a fiscal note.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  concurred on that request  and asked for                                                                   
a side by side analysis.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:58:12 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked for a more thorough  analysis of                                                                   
the  consequences  of various  options.  Commissioner  Galvin                                                                   
agreed.   Representative   Kelly    also   asked   for   more                                                                   
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RECESS:         1:01:42 PM                                                                                                    
RECONVENED:     1:41:13 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARRY   PULLIAM,  SENIOR   ECONOMIST,   ECON  ONE   RESEARCH,                                                                   
presented the Report to the Alaska  Legislature on Production                                                                   
Cost  Increases (copy  on  file).   He  briefly outlined  the                                                                   
changes from  ELF to the PPT net  system.  He noted  that the                                                                   
difference  between  the  gross  system and  the  net  system                                                                   
required  looking   at  operating  expenditures   (OPEX)  and                                                                   
capital expenditures.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:44:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Rep. Joule asked  Mr. Pulliam if he was still  under contract                                                                   
with Legislative  Budget and Audit  (LB&A).  He  confirmed he                                                                   
was hired by LB&A along with Dan  Dickenson and Steve Porter.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pulliam addressed  the first  slide.  He explained  that                                                                   
cost projections  were pulled from  a number of sources.   He                                                                   
showed how  the total  costs of  the fiscal  note on  HB 2001                                                                   
break out to  $1.1 for capital and $1.1 for  operating costs,                                                                   
totaling $2.2 billion.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:48:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam explained that the  cost figures are not based on                                                                   
a particular version,  but have been used for  projections of                                                                   
the ACES version.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:50:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  for  clarification regarding  the                                                                   
cost projections.  Mr. Pulliam  said it was his understanding                                                                   
that the numbers reflected in  the handout are those that are                                                                   
being  used  for  all  versions.     He  clarified  that  the                                                                   
calculations use  the average cost  for the North  Slope, not                                                                   
including  royalty oil.   Representative  Gara asked  for the                                                                   
cost per  barrel for all  oil and asked  if the  numbers were                                                                   
overstated  by 1/8.   Mr. Pulliam  explained that the  amount                                                                   
per  barrel  reflects  the  amount   that  is  deductible  in                                                                   
calculating the  tax. He explained  that the cost  per barrel                                                                   
for  the  North  Slope  would  be $16.50  per  barrel  on  an                                                                   
eight/eighth's basis.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:52:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam discussed the department's  current estimates for                                                                   
HB  2001.  He   explained  that  the  information   from  the                                                                   
department  is total cost  information.   More specific  data                                                                   
was not available due to tax payer confidentiality.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:55:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked  what the  projected costs  would                                                                   
be. Mr.  Pulliam noted that  flat costs are being  forecasted                                                                   
for the  next several  years. The  relationship between  cost                                                                   
and price is built into the forecast.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara revisited  the issue  of the $16.5  cost                                                                   
per barrel.   Mr.  Pulliam noted  this is  a forecast  number                                                                   
based on a gross cost and has not been audited.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara assumed that  costs would be  overstated                                                                   
by the  industry. Rep  Gara referred  to the assumption  that                                                                   
costs  are lower  for bigger  fields and  higher for  smaller                                                                   
companies. He agreed with the  assumption and reiterated that                                                                   
the department did not share specific field information.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked if in  the case of $98  per barrel                                                                   
oil,  everything  above  $18.85  would  be  profit  with  the                                                                   
exception of  what is paid in  taxes. Mr. Pulliam  noted that                                                                   
there  is  the cost  of  moving  the  oil. In  addition  TAPS                                                                   
tariffs  are estimated  at $25  on $95 barrel  of oil,  which                                                                   
would leave a $75 margin for which you would pay taxes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:00:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker,  as   a   point  of   clarification,                                                                   
emphasized  that within  the tax formula  are excluded  costs                                                                   
that  cannot  be deducted,  which  would  be taken  from  the                                                                   
margin.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam  addressed the question  of increased costs.   He                                                                   
said the costs of production have  gone up due to both actual                                                                   
and expected  prices of  crude oil. He  pointed to  the chart                                                                   
that  denotes the  cost increase  in  crude oil  from 2000  -                                                                   
2007. In  the past there have  been spikes in crude  oil, but                                                                   
the  chart highlights  the steady  increase.   He  underlined                                                                   
that it is the projected expectation that drives investment                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:04:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam  discussed future prices,  which went from  $45 a                                                                   
barrel to $80 per barrel. The  expectation of oil prices have                                                                   
shifted   upward.  Increased   activity   puts  pressure   on                                                                   
available services, which then increase production costs.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:06:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  questioned what  the appropriate  price would                                                                   
be based solely  on supply and demand. Mr.  Pulliam could not                                                                   
answer,  but   explained  that   a  great  deal   depends  on                                                                   
geopolitics.  He noted  additional variables  that come  into                                                                   
play on the price of oil and the costs to produce it.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:10:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam said companies are  more likely to pursue new and                                                                   
heavy oil at higher prices and margins.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  noted  that  a  gas  pipeline  would  assist                                                                   
consumption. Mr. Pulliam explained  that the demand would not                                                                   
ease, but the  pace of increase would stabilize.  If consumer                                                                   
behavior changes  and demand falls it would  put the pressure                                                                   
back on crude oil.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:12:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam reviewed  the upstream capital cost  put together                                                                   
by HIS/CERA. He  pointed out that the chart  illustrates a 10                                                                   
percent  increase  from 2000-2004  associated  with  upstream                                                                   
production.    The  chart  further   demonstrates  the  large                                                                   
increase in  costs in 2005.   He noted that the  increase was                                                                   
level  with inflation  in  the economy.    He explained  that                                                                   
there is  some tapering  off in  2007 due  to the ability  of                                                                   
companies to respond to demand.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:15:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker asked if  anything is attributed to the                                                                   
point  in  influxation,  specifically the  huge  increase  in                                                                   
2004.  Mr. Pulliam  reiterated that  the increase  is due  to                                                                   
supply  constraint  of equipment  and  services  to meet  the                                                                   
demand.  The shortage  can be attributed  to increase  demand                                                                   
for services with  constraint of available rigs  and the time                                                                   
it takes  to build  additional equipment.  It takes  time and                                                                   
planning to produce needed equipment.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker noted that  the past three years should                                                                   
have allowed the supply industry  to meet demand. Mr. Pulliam                                                                   
explained  that  expectations  have  changed  for  the  price                                                                   
environment.   The   supply  industry   operates   on   these                                                                   
expectations and  thus will meet  the demand to the  point of                                                                   
constraint.   The closer to  the constraint point  the higher                                                                   
utilization rates and the decision  to meet demand further is                                                                   
based on is whether the prices will remain in the long run.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:22:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam reviewed the chart  illustrating the relationship                                                                   
between the  rising prices of  ANS with the rise  in upstream                                                                   
costs. He reiterated that actual  prices play a role, but the                                                                   
process of forming expecations  is what influences investors.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:24:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam provided information  regarding rig rates for the                                                                   
lower  48 states.  Co-Chair  Chenault  noted  that the  chart                                                                   
refers  to drilling  rigs available  in the  lower 48,  which                                                                   
does not require the lead time  as a rig designed for Alaska.                                                                   
Mr.  Pulliam said  that rigs  in the  lower 48  can be  moved                                                                   
between  states, while  they  cannot be  used  in Alaska.  He                                                                   
noted  that  rig rates  would  be  a  bit more  difficult  to                                                                   
determine.   He pointed out that  in 2002 - 2006 there  was a                                                                   
doubling of  rig rates, which  started to come down  in 2007.                                                                   
He  observed that  suppliers  are  catching up  with  demand,                                                                   
which then influences price and  costs.  He expected the same                                                                   
would happen in Alaska with a  bit more of a challenge due to                                                                   
logistics.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:27:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pulliam  referenced  the   chart  illustrating  the  oil                                                                   
drilling rig daily  rates vs. the West Coast ANS  Price.  The                                                                   
information is  based on federal  reports on operating  costs                                                                   
for a variety  of different type of lease operations.   Where                                                                   
the  capital  expenses  are  dramatic,  the  operating  costs                                                                   
reflect a steady increase.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:29:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam  referred  to reports by  BP and  ConocoPhillips,                                                                   
specifically  the production  costs, which  is considered  an                                                                   
operating  expense. Co-chair  Chenault asked  if the  numbers                                                                   
reflected what  was real for  Alaska.  Mr. Pulliam  clarified                                                                   
that there would be lower average  cost for large fields than                                                                   
small scattered fields in Alaska.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:30:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer asked  why  there is  a  spike in  production                                                                   
costs  for Alaska.  Mr.  Pulliam did  not  have a  definitive                                                                   
answer.  He noted  disruptions  in 2006  in  Prudhoe Bay  and                                                                   
added that there  are costs associated with  the disruptions.                                                                   
He  explained  that  the  information  on costs  can  not  be                                                                   
extrapolated   from  the   filings   as   costs  are   simply                                                                   
"production costs" and not detailed.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:32:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  mentioned that the  costs to extract  the oil                                                                   
are  greater  since  2005.   Mr.  Pulliam  said  the  numbers                                                                   
indicated  are  in  line  with  what  DNR  is  using  in  its                                                                   
estimates.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer said it  looks like  costs stayed  relatively                                                                   
stable in the  lower 48, compared to the drastic  increase in                                                                   
Alaska.   He  asked  if  this had  to  do with  location  and                                                                   
bringing  drills  to Alaska.    Mr.  Pulliam noted  that  the                                                                   
transportation  of  drills  would  fall under  capital.    He                                                                   
elaborated  that  an increase  in  labor force,  specific  to                                                                   
Alaska, would have an impact on costs.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara questioned the  accuracy of  the numbers                                                                   
used to  forecast operating costs  last year. He  pointed out                                                                   
that ConocoPhillips's  operating costs where at  $6 while the                                                                   
modeling was done at the $4.   Mr. Pulliam clarified that the                                                                   
department  based their  forecast  on costs  through 2005  as                                                                   
2006 information  was  not available.  He believed,  based on                                                                   
the  numbers available  at the  time, they  were the  correct                                                                   
numbers.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:40:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  noted  other   factors  effecting  costs,                                                                   
including those associated with  the shut down of Prudhoe Bay                                                                   
and  the  volume of  oil  that  was deferred.    Mr.  Pulliam                                                                   
acknowledged  that the  repair numbers  and greater  level of                                                                   
activity, increased costs for facility maintenance.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:42:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam referenced the next  slide [B.P. production costs                                                                   
per BOE  2002-2006] and pointed  out that B.P.  does breakout                                                                   
spending   cost   in   Alaska.   He   addressed   the   slide                                                                   
comparing B.P.  and ConocoPhillips production costs  per BOE.                                                                   
He noted  the increase  in costs  for BP  from 2005-2006  and                                                                   
said this  was likely due to  the repair costs from  the shut                                                                   
down.   In  response to  Representative  Hawker, Mr.  Pulliam                                                                   
stated  that the  numbers  are based  on  calendar year  were                                                                   
consistent  for  all  represented.   He  explained  that  the                                                                   
information was taken from the  10-K's and 20-F which are end                                                                   
of the calendar year numbers.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam  mentioned the corrosion expenses  and management                                                                   
costs.  Publicly available  information from  BP states  that                                                                   
they will  spend $260 million  to replace transit lines.   In                                                                   
addition, the 20-F  filing says they will spend  $550 million                                                                   
on  integrity management  over  2007-2008.   It is  uncertain                                                                   
whether the $550 million is just for the 07/08.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:49:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Gara   continued   his   questioning   about                                                                   
increased  costs. He  pointed out  that prior  and after  the                                                                   
shut down, costs were rising.   Mr. Pulliam agreed that costs                                                                   
are going up and that the shut  down is just another layer of                                                                   
costs.   He  also  explained  that the  integrity  management                                                                   
piece increases costs significantly.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara thought that  the costs were  continuing                                                                   
to  rise  and   asked  if  it  was  wise  to   have  a  model                                                                   
representing  flat costs.   Mr.  Pulliam  responded that  the                                                                   
higher cost scenario  component is built on  increased costs,                                                                   
over the $60 dollar barrel based  on the PPT filings.  He did                                                                   
not know if  the forecast would ultimately provide  the exact                                                                   
correct numbers.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked if  they are  using flat  costs in                                                                   
the model.   Mr. Pulliam  said they were forecasting  overall                                                                   
costs unit to unit.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly commented  on all the variables involved                                                                   
in the cost projection.  Mr. Pulliam  acknowledged that every                                                                   
fluctuation  creates unanticipated  results.   Representative                                                                   
Kelly understood the difficulties  for industry and noted the                                                                   
intention  for the  special session  is to  determine a  rate                                                                   
that is fair for all Alaskans and encourages investment.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pulliam recommended  that  members  remember that  costs                                                                   
have  gone up  as have  the price  of  oil per  barrel.   The                                                                   
margin is greater and the margin of error is larger.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:00:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pulliam  referenced the final  two slides  concluding his                                                                   
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:02:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault noted  the  handout from  Marcia Davis  to                                                                   
address concerns voiced by Representative Hawker.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
RECESSED:      3:03:03 PM                                                                                                     
RECONVENED:    5:19:44 PM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAN  DICKINSON,  CONSULTANT,   TAX  DIVISION,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
REVENUE  compared  ACES  to  current  law,  HO&G,  HRES.  See                                                                   
attached spreadsheet.  He noted that  the base rate  has gone                                                                   
back and forth between the bills  from 22.5 - 25 %.  The HRES                                                                   
version is at 25%.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  reviewed the  progressivity feature.  He noted                                                                   
that the starting point has varied  from $30-$60. He observed                                                                   
that the HRES version did not  supply a cap, which results in                                                                   
the  unintended  consequence  of  a  government  take  of  90                                                                   
percent at $190 a barrel.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TIE  credits exist  in current  law and  where removed  under                                                                   
ACES. The HO&G version allows  going back to 2003 rather than                                                                   
2001.  The HRES version retained this change.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  discussed exploration  credits predating  PPT.                                                                   
The base  credit was raised  from 20  to 30 percent.  The old                                                                   
language was left in because anything  that qualified for the                                                                   
20% would qualify under AS 43.55.023 of the new rule.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:28:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson addressed General Administrative costs:                                                                           
Aces  provides a  list of  disallowable administrative  costs                                                                   
titled  Bad  Act  I.   The  HRES  version  retains  the  ACES                                                                   
language.  He noted  the colors on the chart  are as follows:                                                                   
Red indicates PPT language (current  law) and yellow is if it                                                                   
was in ACES and is retained in other versions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.    Dickinson   explained    that    HRES   adopted    the                                                                   
Governor's  proposal, keeping  well data  confidential  for 2                                                                   
years.  The  HRES  version  adopted  the  Aces  language  for                                                                   
defining "pre-existing  well".  The definition  being that if                                                                   
within  2  drilling  seasons wells  were  active  they  could                                                                   
receive the 30%  credit in the next year.  Under  current law                                                                   
if a company  found something in  one year and went  back the                                                                   
next, it would not longer qualify  for the credits.  The next                                                                   
provision regarding  seismic data allows the  commissioner of                                                                   
ddnr to acquire  seismic data anytime before  2003, purchased                                                                   
with a  5% credit.   This was original  ACES language  and is                                                                   
retained in HRES.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:30:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson discussed the state  purchase of credits, which                                                                   
was a new idea  in the Governor's bill. Where  there is a cap                                                                   
in  the current  law and  in the  HO&G version.  There is  no                                                                   
limit in  the HRES  version. Unlike  all other versions,  the                                                                   
HRES version  allows the  ARM board  to purchase credits  and                                                                   
the state then would purchase from the ARM Board.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Language  regarding  allowable  lease expenditures  from  the                                                                   
ACES bill  was adopted  in the  HRES version. The  difference                                                                   
from  current  law  is  that  legal  expenses  from  disputes                                                                   
between state and taxpayers can  not be deducted.  The ACES &                                                                   
HRES versions disallow any dispute resolution costs.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson outlined the language  regarding the "corrosion                                                                   
issue":   In current law, .30  cents a barrel  is disallowed.                                                                   
The  intent of  the language  was to  find a  quick and  easy                                                                   
method  of addressing  the issue.  The Governor  left in  the                                                                   
current  language,  but  added that  unscheduled  events  are                                                                   
disallowed. The  HRES version reverted back to  PPT language.                                                                   
Additionally, topping  plant expenses are not  allowed in any                                                                   
bill versions.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:34:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  outlined the sections on  information sharing.                                                                   
A  set of  forward  looking  information  is required  to  be                                                                   
supplied with a penalty of up  to $1,000 a day. Mr. Dickinson                                                                   
expressed concern  over the wording "necessary  to forecast".                                                                   
The disclosure of  tax information under current  law says it                                                                   
must be aggregated to prevent  the identification of returns.                                                                   
Both ACES  and HRES  removed the  requirement and added  that                                                                   
tax information  only needs to  be aggregated with  two other                                                                   
producers.   The Department of  Natural Resources  is allowed                                                                   
to share royalty  information with the Department  of Revenue                                                                   
(DOR) and allows DOR to share  tax information with DNR.  The                                                                   
penalty  provisions  that  apply  to  individual  departments                                                                   
carry over to the department who receives the information.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickenson went on to explain changes:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The statute of limitation section  was extended to 6 years in                                                                   
all versions.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The provision making  DOR and DNR auditors exempt  was not in                                                                   
PPT, but is in all other versions of the bill.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The Governor's  effective date would  be January 2008,  as is                                                                   
HO&G.  The  HRES   version  changes  back  to   2007  with  a                                                                   
retroactive  piece for  loss carry forward,  TIE credits  and                                                                   
redefinition of cost to April 1, 2006.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:36:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  addressed  the last page  of his  presentation                                                                   
that  outlines  new  provisions  in the  HRES  version.    He                                                                   
clarified for Representative Gara  that this piece relates to                                                                   
the TransAlaska  Pipeline (TAPS).  The first  issue regarding                                                                   
downstream costs  is to replace "and" with  "or" when linking                                                                   
the 3 criteria.  He concluded  that an auditor could conclude                                                                   
the  criteria  are met  because  only  one, rather  than  all                                                                   
three, need to be met.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The  language   adds  another   audit  issue  defining   what                                                                   
information can be used and under what circumstances.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:40:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson explained that gas  ceilings through 2022 are a                                                                   
new issue.  In current  law there  are ceilings  in the  Cook                                                                   
Inlet for  gas sales. The  HO&G version expanded  language to                                                                   
deal with non  North Slope sales.  The HRES  version expanded                                                                   
language  to clarify  that if  any  gas is  sold outside  the                                                                   
North Slope it is subject to the  same ceiling as Cook Inlet.                                                                   
The rate and price  that was in effect between  April 1, 2005                                                                   
and March 31, 2006 is the rate that applies.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Additional penalties  were added in HRES bill.  The estimated                                                                   
monthly  payments currently  have penalties,  which are  just                                                                   
the application  of interest. The estimated  monthly payments                                                                   
cannot be underestimated without penalty.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:42:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  continued his presentation outlining  the four                                                                   
provisions in the intent section added to the HRES version:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
One is  an overall  statement of intent.   The ACES  language                                                                   
establishing  the statute  of limitations  is retained.   The                                                                   
next   puts  (allocates)   half  the   money  received   from                                                                   
retroactive provisions  into PERS and public  education fund.                                                                   
The final  language puts  for that the  tax savings  from gas                                                                   
ceilings  outside  Cook Inlet  should  be  passed on  to  the                                                                   
consumer.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:44:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked about  penalties for  underpayment                                                                   
of taxes, if they applied to just  the estimated underpayment                                                                   
or to total  payments for the year. Mr.  Dickinson referenced                                                                   
page  18, Section  25.  He interpreted  it  to  apply to  the                                                                   
installment payments,  further noting that the  final payment                                                                   
in   March  is   not  considered   an  installment   payment.                                                                   
Representative Gara asked if there  was any provision dealing                                                                   
with  underpayment of  taxes.   Mr. Dickinson  said there  is                                                                   
nothing  added, but current  law has  penalties for  "willful                                                                   
neglect" of  the law.  Representative  Gara asked  what would                                                                   
happen  in the  situation  where the  state  could not  prove                                                                   
"willful neglect".  Mr. Dickinson  explained that there would                                                                   
be  no  penalty  beyond  the application  of  interest.    He                                                                   
further clarified that as of March  31 the rate would be 11%,                                                                   
which is the Alaska statutory rate.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:47:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly referenced AS  43.55.011 and  asked for                                                                   
clarification regarding  non Cook  Inlet gas.   Mr. Dickinson                                                                   
acknowledged  the  confusion   of  his  statement  that  "the                                                                   
provision applied to everything  accept the North Slope".  He                                                                   
corrected  his  statement  after noting  that  the  provision                                                                   
applies  to everything  outside the  Cook Inlet  used in  the                                                                   
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:49:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  referenced  page  one  of  the  handout                                                                   
noting the 50%  cap and asked if Mr. Dickinson  knew what the                                                                   
price  of  oil would  need  to  be to  meet  that cap.    Mr.                                                                   
Dickinson did  not know the  answer.  Co-Chair  Chenault said                                                                   
he saw it modeled at $107.50 per barrel.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:50:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   asked  about  the   two  progressivity                                                                   
features: the $30  net price and the language  from HRES that                                                                   
added a percentage of the gross.   He asked Mr. Dickenson his                                                                   
opinion  on the  provision and  further  questioned if  added                                                                   
percentage on gross would have an impact on investment.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  thought that  having the  tax measured  on the                                                                   
net will  always help the investment  incentive.  It  does so                                                                   
in that progressivity does not  kick in until costs have been                                                                   
recovered.  He  concluded that applying the  progressivity to                                                                   
gross has the same effect as raising the tax rate.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He  noted  a  Line  9, Page  1,  "apply  to"  should  include                                                                   
"gross".                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara   further  questioned   the  differences                                                                   
between  progressivity   on  the  net  vs  gross.   He  cited                                                                   
comparative examples  and asked  why it would  matter whether                                                                   
the percentage was on gross or  net.   Mr. Dickenson said the                                                                   
state  take would  increase  differentially  because the  tax                                                                   
base  of the  company  making the  investment  would be  much                                                                   
larger that the company not making an investment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:56:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dickinson  clarified  the phrase "disallow  bad acts  I".                                                                   
He explained  that there  are two lists  one in AS  43.555.02                                                                   
and one in AS 43.55.023.  He suggested  the lists be made the                                                                   
same.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
GAFFNEY, CLINE & ASSOCIATES                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
5:58:41 PM                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
RICH  RUGGIER,  CONSULTANT,  GAFFNEY,  CLINE  AND  ASSOCIATES                                                                   
INC., presented Alaska's Equitable  Share.  The first section                                                                 
outlined the four  goals of the fiscal system  design and the                                                                   
four proposals  presented.  The  second part illustrated  the                                                                   
way in  which a  representative portfolio  of projects  would                                                                   
look and how invest decisions  might appear under the various                                                                   
proposals. In addition they offered  an opportunity to review                                                                   
an analysis of  infield drilling that was presented  to other                                                                   
committees.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
Representative Gara  asked about the progressivity  model and                                                                   
how  that affected  rate of  return and  profitability.   Mr.                                                                   
Ruggerio recommended  that a background would  be provided in                                                                   
order to help answer the question.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggeri addressed  the  handout:  Goals  for the  fiscal                                                                   
design  (copy on  file.) He  observed that  the challenge  of                                                                   
addressing  these goals  is to  know how much  to take  while                                                                   
encouraging investment through giving back (credits).                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He addressed goal 3: Encourage  new investment outside legacy                                                                   
units.    He  noted that  the  current  provision  provide  a                                                                   
healthy environment to encourage investment.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:03:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggeri  observed  that  Alaska  is  favorable  for  new                                                                   
investment. Additional  liquid carbons  that can be  put down                                                                   
the  TAPS would  extend  the  life of  Trans-Alaska  Pipeline                                                                   
System.  He  asserted extending the life of  TAPS should then                                                                   
extend the life of the legacy fields.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Ruggiero  discussed   the  slide:   Key  Point   Easily                                                                   
Misunderstood.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The margin to  price relationship changes with  time and with                                                                   
project  addition.   Costs increase  when  fewer barrels  are                                                                   
produced.   He also gave  an example  of a heavy  oil project                                                                   
where  operating costs  are higher  in addition  to a  market                                                                   
price quality deduction.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He cautioned that when looking  at what might be considered a                                                                   
negative for producing heavy oil,  it is important to look at                                                                   
individual projects and how they fit into different models.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:06:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggerio  addressed  the next slide:   Regime  comparison                                                                   
comparing the  four systems; PPT,  ACES and Senate  committee                                                                   
substitute.     The  chart  illustrates  how   the  base  tax                                                                   
increases with  price increase,  where and how  progressivity                                                                   
kicks  in, and  how  that impacts  corporate  income tax  and                                                                   
producer profit.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero addressed the summary  of terms based on the net                                                                   
margin:  base, kick-off,  progressivity and  cap.  The  chart                                                                   
illustrated the  percentages and dollar amounts  in each bill                                                                   
version that determine base tax and progressivity.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  referenced the chart and asked  if a 50%                                                                   
tax cap was common world wide.   Additionally, he inquired if                                                                   
there would  be a detriment to  industry to raise the  cap at                                                                   
extreme  high prices.   Mr.  Ruggerio informed  him that  the                                                                   
world average is in the high 60's.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:11:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB GEORGE,  CONSULTANT, GAFFNEY,  CLINE AND ASSOCIATES  INC.                                                                   
elaborated  that with  royalty  added and  federal and  state                                                                   
income  tax  the  percentage  can  be  closer  to  70%.    He                                                                   
cautioned that  with Alaska  it is important  to look  at the                                                                   
totality of the tax package.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero referenced the next  chart pointing out when the                                                                   
tax would  reach a  50% cap.  He also  clarified the  earlier                                                                   
question noting  that the  House version  reaches the  cap at                                                                   
$92 net  margin.  With current  costs projections  that would                                                                   
be a $115 per barrel market price.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  asked about the property  tax inclusion in                                                                   
the model.  Mr. Ruggiero stated  that it was left out because                                                                   
it was insignificant.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:13:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  highlighted  the slide that  included the  four                                                                   
fiscal systems.   The system is plodded against  margins with                                                                   
current oil prices above the weighted average of cost.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He noted that the Senate, House  and ACES versions start with                                                                   
a base rate  of 25% with PPT  at 22.5%.  He pointed  out that                                                                   
progressivity  kicks in at  different rates  and caps  out at                                                                   
50% in the Senate and ACES versions and at 47.5% with PPT.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara asked the  estimate of what progressivity                                                                   
would need to be  under the House version to  raise a similar                                                                   
amount  of  revenue to  the  Senate  version.   Mr.  Ruggiero                                                                   
offered to provide that information.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:17:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  addressed progressivity  impacts.  He  said the                                                                   
use of  progressivity creates  a sizeable difference  between                                                                   
the effective rate  and the marginal rate of  tax in relation                                                                   
to investment decisions.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:19:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero highlighted  the following slides  and posed the                                                                   
example of each scenario of a company deciding to reinvest:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Taxpayer A - low margin business                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Taxpayer B - high margin                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Taxpayer C - low on the slope                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
6:22:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero continued:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Taxpayer D - High on the slope                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The handout  calculates the math  based on variables  in each                                                                   
scenario.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggerio further  outlined  his point  through the  next                                                                   
slide C &  D New marginal tax  rate higher.  He  informed the                                                                   
committee   that  this   chart   indicates   the  effect   of                                                                   
progressivity on investment.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:24:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  pointed out that the models  are not based                                                                   
off the  current HRES version.  He noted the leeway  given to                                                                   
the presenters in lue of timeframe  with the drafting of CSHB
2001 (RES).                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly suggested that  another curve  be added                                                                   
to reflect the HRES version.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  offered to run  the House committee  substitute                                                                   
with a 50%  cap, but noted that  there is no cap in  the HRES                                                                   
version. Representative Kelly  said that was an oversight and                                                                   
the  50% cap  should have  been in  the bill.   Mr.  Ruggerio                                                                   
offered to oblige the request.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  addressed  the next slide  - Progressivity  and                                                                   
Goals 1,  2 & 3.   He provided  examples of the  relationship                                                                   
between  variables: production,  investment and  margin.   He                                                                   
maintained that base rate plus  progressivity, and the cap is                                                                   
a self-correcting mechanism.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:30:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara questioned  the slide,  "likely zone  of                                                                   
operation".  He  asked if at $50 per barrel is  the State the                                                                   
largest investor on the North  Slope.  Mr. Ruggiero responded                                                                   
that when investment  credits equal 50%, anything  above that                                                                   
point, the State is the largest investor of any project.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:31:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. George explained  that the net tax is based  on cash flow                                                                   
retained by the company rather  than a simple tax on profits.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
   · Profitability as typically described. This slide                                                                           
     provides a simple overview of the portfolio of                                                                             
     profitability.                                                                                                             
   · PPT based on $53/bbl profit.  This slide extrapolates                                                                      
     out components of the PPT.  He presented examples on                                                                       
     the next several slides.                                                                                                   
   · Misconception of the net progressivity                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:34:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. George presented - Understanding how "net" works.                                                                           
The presentation exemplified net  effect on the tax rate when                                                                   
a company reinvests in lesser  profitable field.  The blended                                                                   
rate brings the rate down.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:38:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  commented on  the slide  titled: The  Impact on                                                                   
the lower  margin Fields is  more noticeable.   The effective                                                                   
rate on some  lower-margin fields may even be  lower than the                                                                   
basic rate (22.5%  PPT) of 17.7%.  This is  manifested in the                                                                   
blended rate being lower than  the weighted average rate.  He                                                                   
underlined  that this  is the rate  companies would  consider                                                                   
when deciding whether to invest.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  George offered  to  illustrate how  that  aspect of  the                                                                   
portfolio would change within various versions of the bill.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked how  with a 25%  tax rate  could a                                                                   
field pay  for less than 25%.   Mr. George explained  that if                                                                   
the field  was the  only one  in the  portfolio it would  pay                                                                   
25%. He  elaborated that  adding a  less profitable  field to                                                                   
the portfolio  lowers the  overall rate  and brings  down the                                                                   
blended rate.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked if the reduced rate is  due to the                                                                   
amount of money spent developing  the less profitable fields.                                                                   
Mr. George responded that his  description was one of capital                                                                   
investment effect.   He elaborated  saying it is  the overall                                                                   
costs  of production  that brings  down the  tax rate of  the                                                                   
portfolio  as a  whole.   Representative Gara  asked if  that                                                                   
result  is  due to  the  progressivity  factor.   Mr.  George                                                                   
replied  that  it  was  entirely  due  to  the  progressivity                                                                   
factor.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:42:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  commented  that  the  portion  of  the                                                                   
benefit  in  terms  of  credits is  there  whether  you  have                                                                   
progressivity  or not.   Mr. George  agreed  that it was  the                                                                   
progressivity factor.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. George mentioned the blending of the margin slide.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:46:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  George presented  a  slide  explaining the  function  of                                                                   
capital  investment  as  a  function   of  the  spending  and                                                                   
production.   He provided  calculations expressing  different                                                                   
scenarios.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:48:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. George  further explained how  the margin from  which the                                                                   
tax is calculated is reduced through capital expenditure.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:50:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. George  spoke to  the investment  credits. The  affect of                                                                   
investment credits is to lower the tax rate further.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:51:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  George presented  the slide:  Tax  Structure as  applied                                                                   
under  various  structures.  He  explained  that  under  PPT,                                                                   
progressivity  reduced   the  effective  rate   on  the  less                                                                   
productive  fields.  Under  ACES  the tax  rate  on  existing                                                                   
fields would go up, but would  retain progressivity. The ACES                                                                   
version established  a higher  base rate  of 25% rather  than                                                                   
Pot's  22.5%.     Though  the  progressivity   percentage  is                                                                   
shallower  at.2%, the starting  point is  at $30 rather  than                                                                   
$40.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:53:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  George  addressed  the Senate  Judiciary  version:    He                                                                   
explained  that the Senate  Judiciary  version starts  at the                                                                   
same  point as  ACES,  but has  a  progressivity  of .4%.  He                                                                   
elaborated  on  the point  that  though  this results  in  an                                                                   
overall larger take, the less  profitable field benefits from                                                                   
a lower  rate.  In  the HRES  version the progressivity  sets                                                                   
the rate  from the net  cash flow per  barrel, but  taxes the                                                                   
Gross Value.  The effective rate  becomes higher than a "pure                                                                   
net"  system with  the same  progressivity  feature, but  the                                                                   
progressive  taxation of  different  profitability fields  is                                                                   
maintained.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:55:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In Conclusion  Mr. George reiterated earlier  comments that a                                                                   
net tax  is a  tax on  a company's  retained cash  flow.   In                                                                   
addition,  all versions  of the  bill would  allow fields  of                                                                   
different  profitability  within  the same  company  to  have                                                                   
different effective tax rates.    In closing, on the point of                                                                   
net   tax,   he   maintained   that   more   aggressive   net                                                                   
progressivity  provides  a  greater  differentiation  on  the                                                                   
effective rate.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  asked if this  is a bad thing.  Mr. George                                                                   
said that when looking at encouraging  investment it could be                                                                   
a good  thing. He  went on to  say that progressivity  allows                                                                   
producers the choice between taking  cash flow to reinvest to                                                                   
lower the rate.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault surmised  that marginal  fields receive  a                                                                   
larger  break than  greater producing  fields would  receive.                                                                   
He felt  that this is what  is desirous as the  larger fields                                                                   
produce less.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:57:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  if it is  an accurate  assessment                                                                   
that the  higher base with  a higher progressivity  does more                                                                   
to  encourage  investment  than  the  lower  base  and  lower                                                                   
progressivity.    Mr.  Ruggiero  responded  that  in  general                                                                   
principal  it is,  however,  different  prices get  different                                                                   
answers.    He  underlined  the   importance  of  looking  at                                                                   
individual company portfolios  information regarding existing                                                                   
operations   and   what   the    perceived   new   investment                                                                   
opportunities could be.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  asked  if  low base  tax  with  a  higher                                                                   
progressivity  is  better  for   the  investment  climate  in                                                                   
Alaska.  Mr. Ruggiero  said there are  two possible  results:                                                                   
At a  lower base rate  linked with  net operating  loss carry                                                                   
forward,  new  explorers would  have  greater  out of  pocket                                                                   
expense.     He said  that the  expressed  scenario would  be                                                                   
beneficial is  in smaller projects  as a lower rate  can mean                                                                   
higher profitability.  Mr. George added that  the steeper the                                                                   
progressivity the  more strength  you give to  the investment                                                                   
piece whereby a producer lowers the rate thru investment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:01:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly  asked about the producing  of heavy oil                                                                   
within  the legacy  fields.   In  response to  a question  by                                                                   
Representative   Kelly,  Mr.   Ruggerio  referenced   earlier                                                                   
examples and explained  that a stand alone (outside  a legacy                                                                   
unit) would pay  27.5; being inside the legacy  unit the rate                                                                   
would be 17%.  Representative Kelly commented  that a company                                                                   
producing both  light and heavy  oil would have an  effect of                                                                   
lowering the  total tax  rate for the  producer.   Mr. George                                                                   
agreed that less profitable components bring down the rate.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  addressed  the question:  Where is the  tipping                                                                   
point  in the  tax that  plays into  economics? He  commented                                                                   
that industry  does not  really supply  that answer,  but one                                                                   
thing known  is that wherever  industry can get more  oil out                                                                   
of the  ground that means  greater profitability.   The other                                                                   
point made  is that there are  many variables that  come into                                                                   
play.   All companies run economic  models to decide  what to                                                                   
pursue and what not to pursue.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:06:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggerio addressed infill  drilling. He presented overall                                                                   
observations  based  on  testimony from  industry.    Gaffney                                                                   
Cline  agrees  that there  is  a  significant upside  in  the                                                                   
amount of existing main fields  as expressed in BP testimony.                                                                   
He  asserted  that  the economics  of  the  reinvestment  are                                                                   
extremely profitable.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
7:07:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  extracted from AOGA  testimony:   "the greatest                                                                   
challenge facing  Alaska is the  ongoing decline".   In other                                                                   
parts  of the AOGA  testimony  he pointed out  that there  is                                                                   
current  investment  in  those fields  in,  infill  drilling,                                                                   
contributing 70,000 barrels a day.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He spoke to a statement that he  made at the round table that                                                                   
70%  of  the  upside  comes from  existing  light  oil.    He                                                                   
presented a BP slide to maintain his point.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  referenced a hand  out on Prudhoe Bay  from BP:                                                                   
Prudhoe Bay  infill drilling  results.    The chart  outlined                                                                   
the relationship between costs per barrel produced.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He drew several conclusions from the information:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     It is getting costlier to find according to BP data.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The oil is harder to find and more expensive to find.                                                                      
     He referenced calculations in the handout.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:11:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Riggerio said different sources  had different numbers on                                                                   
the  per  barrel produced  calculations.  He  emphasized  the                                                                   
numbers are related to in-fill drilling only.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
7:12:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked if  the quote from  Pioneer noting                                                                   
costs at $14 per barrel reflected  both operating and capital                                                                   
costs.    Mr.  Ruggiero  explained  that  it  represents  the                                                                   
capital costs  only.  He also  confirmed a statement  made by                                                                   
Representative  Gara  that  the   incremental  production  in                                                                   
Prudhoe Bay is at 4.90 per barrel.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  followed   up  by  asking  for  overall                                                                   
production in PB.  Mr. Ruggerio  reiterated that they did not                                                                   
have access to that data.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Riggerio   confirmed  additional  assumptions   made  by                                                                   
representative  Gara  that  the  blended  rate  (capital  and                                                                   
incremental)  would render  an  amount less  than  $4.9.   He                                                                   
added that the economic choices  companies are facing are not                                                                   
based on past finding costs, but on its future projections.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:14:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggiero  presented a  chart:  5 year  Prudhoe  Drilling                                                                   
Program.   He pointed out that  for every dollar BP  spent on                                                                   
an infill  well another two  dollars were spent  on injection                                                                   
and  surface   facilities  -   base  case  is   300%  Capital                                                                   
expenditures.   The result is  a $3.7 billion  dollar program                                                                   
to produce the wells.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
7:15:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  referenced a  chart and  explained that  50% of                                                                   
production  in Prudhoe  is  the  result of  a  5 year  infill                                                                   
drilling  program,  which is  incremental.  On  an after  tax                                                                   
basis using 300%  capital expenditures the after  tax rate of                                                                   
return on the investment (in-fill  drilling only) is a little                                                                   
over 60 percent.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
7:17:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  acknowledged  that these  numbers are high  and                                                                   
may  be questioned.    His organization  ran  numbers with  a                                                                   
lower price at $50 North Slope  with high progressivity, 300%                                                                   
capital  expenditures,   200%  operating  expenditures,   25%                                                                   
discount rate. He maintained that  adjusting the variables to                                                                   
higher stresses  on the model, the calculation  still results                                                                   
in a 56 % rate of return.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:19:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Ruggiero    offered   to    demonstrate   the    model.                                                                   
Representative  Gara asked him  to demonstrate the  impact on                                                                   
profitability with the HRES and SJUD versions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggerio demonstrated the  model with different variables                                                                   
per Representative  Gara's request.   The result was  still a                                                                   
rate of return at 64%.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  for  an explanation  of "rate  of                                                                   
return".   Mr.  Ruggerio  said it  represents  the amount  of                                                                   
interest earned.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggerio   clarified  that  300%  capital   expenditures                                                                   
represents  the amount  necessary  to invest  to produce  the                                                                   
infill wells.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked  if  the  model  could  show  the                                                                   
difference of a 22.5% and a 25% tax application.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero explained that the  change is minimal due to the                                                                   
fixed numbers of the past.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:23:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero maintained his point  that robust numbers remain                                                                   
even  with  the  variable  of   price  decreasing  and  costs                                                                   
increasing and provided examples.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:25:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asserted that even  at $50 per  barrel a                                                                   
37%  rate of  return is  a healthy  percentage. Mr.  Ruggiero                                                                   
agreed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggerio cautioned that the  model is representative only                                                                   
of infill  drilling.  He  stressed that  it is not  the whole                                                                   
picture but is half of the field.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:27:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Reggerio  spoke  to  the   potential  of  heavy  oil  at                                                                   
different rates of decline and the effects on return.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
7:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  spoke to North  Slope Potential  asserting that                                                                   
production drives  revenue. He referred to a  chart depicting                                                                   
the relationship  between decline rate, produced  barrels and                                                                   
industry   investment.     He   then  introduced   additional                                                                   
variables of net present value  (NPV) at 10% and undiscounted                                                                   
NPV;  cash flow  with no  time value  of money  impact.   The                                                                   
calculations were presented in the chart.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:32:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggerio made  note that  in the  chart the  abandonment                                                                   
rate  was set  at 250,000  barrels  per day.     This can  be                                                                   
arrested with investment in a new well.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruggiero  addressed  the  final chart:    Delaying  TAPS                                                                   
Abandonment;  Impact  of  abandonment  rate  on  North  Slope                                                                   
Recovery.  He concluded  that even at  the highest  projected                                                                   
decline rate  of 15% and  abandonment rate of  250,000, there                                                                   
is still the potential recovery of 1.4 billion barrels.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He emphasized  the importance of investment  and reinvestment                                                                   
in  new fields,  within  the  legacy  fields, should  not  be                                                                   
underestimated.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:35:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In summary  Mr. Ruggiero  said that  Oil companies  must show                                                                   
"reasonable certainty"  about future investment  and expected                                                                   
production to be able to book  oil in the ground as reserves.                                                                   
He concluded that even with decline  rate scenarios at 6% and                                                                   
3% companies are  able to book reserves.  He  maintained that                                                                   
if a  company chose  to not pursue  infill drilling  it would                                                                   
bring  down   booked  reserves   which  would  effect   stock                                                                   
investments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He also  reiterated goals and  pointed out that  all proposed                                                                   
legislation meet  the goals of the legislature.   In addition                                                                   
if  reinvestment is  attained  there would  be a  significant                                                                   
increase in barrels available from existing assets alone.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:36:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  Mr.  George to  elaborate on  the                                                                   
credit system.   Mr. George responded  that it is  a generous                                                                   
provision in a number of ways.   For explorers, the immediate                                                                   
ability  to  monetize  operating  expenses  and  the  20%  is                                                                   
available in only one jurisdiction.   The ability is rare and                                                                   
attractive  to the various  companies.   Similarly, the  rate                                                                   
that you can deduct  costs, 100% the first year,  is not very                                                                   
common.  He offered examples.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked if  there was anything  about the                                                                   
combination  of credits that  was of  concern.  Mr.  Ruggiero                                                                   
responded that there  is a possibility under a  unique set of                                                                   
circumstances, of  prolonged period of time that  we would be                                                                   
at a predictive  margin (80-90pb) above cost  predicted to be                                                                   
there multiple years  in advance such that the  oil companies                                                                   
could make sizeable investments.  In such a case, there could                                                                   
be a possibility  that the state  would pay over 100%  of the                                                                   
investment cost.  A choice of  capping the State contribution                                                                   
might be  a consideration  in that case.   He cautioned  that                                                                   
the other  concern is that if  there is $1 or  $2 incremental                                                                   
dollars moving up or down the  curve, the result is the same.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He  further noted  that  if the  variables  come together  as                                                                   
mentioned, the state would have  the ability to contribute in                                                                   
that way because the return rate would be high.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly commented  on the plan.  He asked if the                                                                   
administration had  been adequately consulted early  on.  Mr.                                                                   
Ruggiero replied that they were  asked for the worldwide view                                                                   
on the  perspective approximately  a month before  presenting                                                                   
ACES.  The views provided then  are substantially the same as                                                                   
the ones  presented.   He commented  that the  administration                                                                   
did  not tell  them what  to say  and that  they continue  to                                                                   
provide advice based on their knowledge.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:44:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  applauded  the   presentation.    He  asked,                                                                   
considering the unique components  of drilling oil in Alaska,                                                                   
are  the proposed  tax  rates competitive  for  reinvestment.                                                                   
Mr. George  responded  that one  of the key  features on  the                                                                   
structure of the tax is the high  reinvestment incentive.  It                                                                   
is a  tax based on  cash flow taxen  out of the  state rather                                                                   
than based on pure profitability.   In terms of how companies                                                                   
will look  at Alaska, companies  will closely  scrutinize the                                                                   
profitability of the margins.   The system as structured does                                                                   
provide  incentive.   Companies look  at political  stability                                                                   
and  exploration,  but  the  reinvestment  opportunities  are                                                                   
substantial within  the legacy fields. He further  noted that                                                                   
the investment credits pose a significant incentive.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero added  that most companies do not  just consider                                                                   
the  tax rate  and  provided  the  example of  West  Africa's                                                                   
history and  tax rate.   If  taxes are raised at the  top end                                                                   
high progressivity  assures the state gets a fair  share.  He                                                                   
noted  that  the  when  there is  a  progressivity  take  the                                                                   
profitability to companies is $100 profit per barrel.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The positive  aspects of the  Alaska system are  an incentive                                                                   
within the system.  He provided  the example of the incentive                                                                   
to invest in the lesser profitable fields.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:51:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  agreed that the  current tax system  based on                                                                   
net,  works for  Alaska.   He  maintained  that  a gross  tax                                                                   
system   provides  no   incentive  for   reinvestment.     He                                                                   
emphasized that the net is the  best way to go.  Mr. Ruggiero                                                                   
agreed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer asked  about the existing  Legacy fields  and                                                                   
the price on heavy oil.  Mr. Ruggiero  pointed out that there                                                                   
is a posted price for oil of certain  quality.  He went on to                                                                   
say when crude meets those specifications,  and then it is at                                                                   
market  value.  Heavy  oil is  less valuable  and the  market                                                                   
places a  discount on that crude.   Co-Chair Meyer  asked how                                                                   
models could  be run if  the future is  in heavy  oil whereby                                                                   
providing less  than market price.   Mr. Ruggiero  noted that                                                                   
it  could  be modeled  with  adding  one  more line  in  that                                                                   
indicates  the crude quality  adjustment.   He referred  to a                                                                   
chart   that  provides   an  example   of  a  crude   quality                                                                   
adjustment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:56:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara noted that  his constituents want to know                                                                   
why  PPT underperformed.   Mr.  Ruggiero  responded that  the                                                                   
three components  in  making a prediction:  price, amount  of                                                                   
production and associated costs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero further  pointed out that one of  the provisions                                                                   
in the bill is  the data exchange.  He said  that forecasting                                                                   
from the oil companies is critical  for the state to forecast                                                                   
accurately.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked  why   the  information  exchange                                                                   
provision  would help.   Mr. Ruggiero  said if the  companies                                                                   
share the information regarding  capital expenditure this can                                                                   
assure revenue in the future.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked if  the information would  provide                                                                   
accuracy regarding  projected return.   Mr. Ruggiero  replied                                                                   
that was a difficult call due  to all the variables the state                                                                   
uses to make that prediction.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:01:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  expressed concern  about the $800  million                                                                   
dollar  shortfall  and  how  it is  being  represented.    He                                                                   
pointed out the variables that  created higher costs and less                                                                   
production  which impacts  the  actual number.  Mr.  Ruggiero                                                                   
agreed  that increase  in costs  both operating  expenditures                                                                   
and capital expenditures,  decline rate which  raises the per                                                                   
barrel costs and a significant  change in market place affect                                                                   
and  create real  numbers as  apposed to  what is  predicted.                                                                   
Co-Chair  Chenault   asked  for  information   regarding  all                                                                   
aforementioned components.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He also requested  how many the barrels of  oil were differed                                                                   
(not produced) due to costs.   He further underlined that the                                                                   
positive side of  those barrels being produced  in the future                                                                   
is  that with  projected  prices  the  state will  receive  a                                                                   
greater benefit.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly addressed  the Administration's  desire                                                                   
to adjust  progressivity if  the 10% floor  is removed.   Mr.                                                                   
Ruggiero understood  that if  the floor  is removed  it would                                                                   
need  to  be  captured  thru   a  progressive  system.    The                                                                   
percentage  change  in  the  progressivity  comes  closer  to                                                                   
accomplishing the loss from the removal of the floor.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:06:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ruggiero  clarified the requests  made by  the committee.                                                                   
Mr. George agreed to provide the information.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:07:47 PM                                                                                                                    

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